i was over in london and saw a presentation by the london stock exchange which says that we're a sarbanes free oxley zone. you don't want to list on the nasdaq. there's a lot of things we're doing to move jobs out. but government is heavily involved in every aspect of our lives. the question is how much more do we want to get involved? if we got a little less involved, people could have the freedom to start those companies. government will never be able to be out of everybody's lives totally. there will always be a role for government. the question is what is that role? how do you have that role? how do you have that role? this we talk about heavily in shadow bosses. you're seeing states like california illinois, i mean these states are going bankrupt. technically they can't go bankrupt i'm aware of that. you are seeing them under enormous pressure. >> jennifer: that pressure is not from salaries of public employees. in fact, a number public employees has dropped dramatically in this country. in fact, in your book, you wrote -- i have to ask you this question because this language, the cu